Lena Boysen-Hillestad I Passings

 

Blanka 

Welcome to another episode of Unleashed podcast. Today I'm here with, 25-time World Champion Lena Boysen-Hillestad. Welcome.

 

Lena 

Thank you.

 

Blanka 

And today, our topic is passing. To train dogs to pass each other on the trail.

 

Lena 

Yeah. That's important.

 

Blanka 

So, first of all, why is it so important to teach the dogs this?

 

Lena 

You have to teach them to behave and to to keep on running like they did before they catch up to other teams. It will be nicer ride for you and the dogs and, of course, the ones you are passing too.

 

Blanka 

So how do you start to train this? Like there are a lot of puppies that, are just like, they just want to go and say hi to the other dog. How can you avoid this and work on that not happening?

 

Lena 

It will probably happen anyways, but, if you start when you have puppies, you should, meet a lot of different dogs, also different breeds. So they get used to different, situations. And when you start to train them more, regularly, I would have a short bungee and good control and I would talk to people. I pass or plan to pass them, so it will be under control. But normally they most sled dogs will run pass others without problems. But, yeah, the playing thing shouldn't happen when you are training, even if it's just for fun.

 

Blanka 

But then you organized training together with others so that you can, like, practice in a, in a way, a controlled environment.

 

Lena 

We do that. And in Norway we are lucky to have snow. So the easiest way to do it is on the snow on skis, because then you have two free hands. You have the poles, but you can still use your hands. And then it's really easy to learn how to do that. And then it's important when you are in a group that you, some people are slowing down and some are passing and you're not supposed to win the training. Yes, you should, passes each other all the way during the training.

 

Blanka 

And if you do it in, without snow, maybe most of the listeners. They have only dry land.

 

Lena 

I would do it, maybe on a wider road, so you can actually have a little distance and a shorter bungee than you normally use. And then you just have to be aware and you can break hard if your dog is going to play with other dogs.Because I feel I personally the same reason why you said that, like with skiing, then you have two free hands.

 

Blanka 

That's why I like it in canicross, because then you can like Have the dog a little bit closer. But many people find that still a bit hard because the dog is strong. It like pulling towards the other one, so maybe. Yeah, in a way, it's easier to give a dog and not a shock, but I know that it like, takes them out a bit of the situation when you like, do you like a big sudden break that's like, “Oh okay. I'm not supposed to do that.”

 

Lena

Yeah, right. But for those canicross is perfect. I don't canicross too much. That's why I didn't mention that. But that, of course, two free hands is the best you can do.

 

Blanka 

But then if you have a dog that is, like, pretty okay with, like, the passing and you see that they are not going up to the other dog. How would you handle then the passing? Because, I know that some people they like, you know, like, start to slow down because they are maybe a bit like, nervous, but that's actually not they're supposed to do.

 

Lena 

No. They can read us so easily so they know when we're nervous. And it's so hard for us, for me too, of course, if I know I have a dog, I'm not, not sure how it's going to act. Of course they understand if I break down a little bit. So you should just actually just go. You can't do that with people who meet in the woods. You have to have some friends out there and know the people and the dog, and then you can try to do it right. And that's exactly the reason why we want to have nice dogs too. So we can be in the woods with other people. Not only our musher friends.

 

Blanka 

So maybe the one that we were passing can slow down a little.

 

Lena 

Yeah, sure they can help us. They also could go with a shorter bungee. So yeah it's easier to pass. One bad passing needs like at least ten good ones. So if you can have all these good ones and then you get more confident as well. And then the next time or next times, after a while, you will just think, okay, this is okay. And you go and then the dog will think, okay. Yeah, it should be like this. But it's not easy.

 

Lena 

No, it's absolutely not.

 

Blanka 

and I think something that many people don't necessarily think about is that they think about reactive dogs, and that is the issue. But we also don't want dogs to say hi, even if they are friendly. We know, like we don't want any interaction between the dogs really on the trail.

 

Lena 

So all also when you're out training with others, also you always stop after you pass people, but you don't stop because you meet them. Also, when we train, like, our neighbors are out walking his dog. It's polite, maybe to stop and chat for a while, but you just go call him afterwards and say, sorry, but I can't stop when I'm training because the dogs should just run past everything.

 

Blanka 

Do you also train with other distractions like, I don't know, photographers or anything else that can be on the train.

 

Lena 

That is really important. Some of the listeners may know that we have this, yeah, this figures, men kind of things at Gåspu. And we put them around in the trail. Some people were so scared because they didn't know, and they were out there with the headlamp in the dark. There were like these scarecrows. That they put in, like, cornfields to, like, scare away the birds. They are exactly the same out in the trail.

And we did that because we want to have people watching like audience and we like people to take pictures or, and also maybe drones and stuff. It's important to be maybe go for a walk in the city just to see all these different stuff. That's important.

 

Blanka

The socialization is important.

 

Lena

And then when you have them in the leash walking in the city then you're confident. Because you know we have control. And then they will learn that nothing is dangerous. Everything's just cool.

 

Blanka 

Yes.  So I feel like especially with photographers they are often in these like weird poses in a way. The dogs are like what is that. What is happening.

 

Lena 

And they have their gear, in the middle of the trail sometimes. And it can be scary. And we all want photos.

 

Blanka 

Yes! And we all love photos. So we want the photographers there.

 

Lena 

Right now where we're training they take a lot of timber out of the woods.Big trucks and big machines and these big machines is like I don't know, some aliens beside the road we’re training on. Some of our dogs are a little bit “Wow. What's that?” But when I'm not reacting to it, they, they then, then they just run. Passing this big trucks in the middle of the small road. It's also just a good thing, it's not dangerous, just run.

 

Blanka 

When you say you don't react, does that mean that you also don't say anything that like to go past it or like any commands.

 

Lena 

Just like we are talking like, this is okay. Look at all this timber. Wow. I'm just talking to them. I'm not like, “come on!” or good dog, good dog because then they feel that, oh, it's something okay happening. So it’s just like talking about cakes or different trees or species, whatever. It's like when you know, when you cut nails. If they don't like it, then I talk like, just a lot, like just talking, talking, talking. And they are a little bit “what is she doing.” And they forget that they don't like it.

 

Blanka

They try to figure out. What are you talking about?

 

Lena 

They forget about. Yeah I use that a lot.

 

Blanka 

That's a bit interesting that I never done. I try to be, like, as silent as possible.

 

Lena 

No, you just talk more than they can absorb 

 

Blanka 

Overwhelm them with talking.

 

Blanka 

Even if we try our best, sometimes we might meet other dogs out on the trail that might not be so nice. And there might be an accident with the dogs that they like, not necessarily that they will get, like, injured or actual, like, physical contact. But, you know, even if a dog is just, like, jumping towards them, it can be scary. What can you do afterwards to, like, take this negative experience out?

 

Lena 

You just have to have good passings again and again and again, maybe with people, you know, then just to be sure that they will be good. But this can happen, of course. It's the psychological effect is the big thing. Not if they're injured. I know just a small cut or something is just mends, but the head is the problem.

Blanka

 Yes. So it's very hard.

 

Lena

Well, it's not fun when that happens, but of course, it's dogs. It can happen to me, to you. With our dogs, too. Even if they're nice. Just one day they want to play a little bit. Then they scare off another dog. That's a part of the life we live with our dogs, I guess.

 

Blanka

Yes, it's not always easy.

Some people struggle with that like they have actually. And like the dog is obviously chasing the other dog like crazy. It can pass nicely. That's not an issue. But once they pass the other dog, then they, like, slow down and don't want to run so much anymore. Do you have any tips on how to train this?

 

Lena 

That’s annoying! If I had an easy answer for that. I think in competitions we would have a lot of people with almost the same result. So it's hard and it happens for us too. Not that they stop completely. But of course, chasing is more fun. It's like playing football is more fun to play football, running after a ball than just running like hell with nothing in front of you. Yes. So, I, I understand the way that is, but I think just being with your dog, being friends with your dog, and being close to your dog will make that easier.

 

And also the thing when you meet people in the trail or friends or the neighbor or people you train with, never let the dog decide when to stop. You decide when to stop because you always go past the others. And then you can stop and the others can follow and they can do that repeatedly. And also when you, specially now in in the fall and when it's warm outside. You usually stop to drink in some water or whatever where you train always stop on different places because you are the one who decides when to stop, not the dog. In a nice way, of course. It's always you that decides what's happening.

 

Blanka 

I see it with my own dog. This is a bit of a struggle that if he knows a place where we stopped before. So then he slows down before that.

 

Lena 

Yeah, ours too.

 

Blanka

And it's actually annoying for us at the finish line because he if he knows where the finish line is he slows down, but it's more like I don't know, he gets depressed that we're stopping because the minutes that we go past that part, then he gets so excited that like “oh my gosh we're running more, let's go” this it's just like “Wohoo”, but we try to also train on this.

That for example, when we train together with others or with my boyfriend and we have, you know, like, obviously we train with different dogs. Once the one in front stops, we always try to go past and only stop after that. And sometimes I have to go quite long because I wait until the dog gets back into the rhythm and I feel like, okay, they are like pulling right, and then in a way stop on the top in the sense of like when they are like doing the best, not when they start to start to slow down or, that I feel like, okay. And I always feel I try to push it until it gets better and then stop.

 

Lena 

Good idea. Good idea. And also, where you parked the car when you train. If you can park it so you can go further with your dog. That's smart, because, when I was younger, we always parked where there was a roadblock, and, the car was on the other side, and we had to walk past a roadblock. So when we came back, they saw the car, and I had to stop because I couldn't go all the way to the car. And then every time when they saw the finish line, they stopped.

So now we tried to have a full speed through the finish line. And we go all the way to the car. Like, we train a lot at Gåsbu where we live and we never stop in the finish line. We continue some hundred meters more.

 

Blanka 

Yeah. I think is that some races or I guess even like at some places where one trains you have to run actually past the car or if you want to do several rounds you have to run past the car. So it's a good thing to train on.

 

Lena 

But after making the PR turn at the Gåsbu, Some people, have seen that, I guess, it's instead of having two laps, we have the trail coming almost all the way into the finish line and going out again so people can watch. And it's more fun to have competitions. And in the beginning, people were so afraid that dogs wouldn't like to run anymore because that was always the way for the finish line. But I think it's working very well. So we just have to train and adjust for whatever we are meeting. And trying new things. And it's usually the same challenges for everybody.

 

Lena 

Yeah. That's right. That's true.

 

Blanka 

There is something that we did not mention before, and this can be actually interesting for some listeners that are very new to this topic. Is passing something the dogs do automatically?

 

Lena 

I think it's the same thing as with everything you learn the dogs in the beginning, you give this good command or you give a treat. And in the end, after some time, maybe some years, they know that they do it without having these treats or commands. So, yeah, they will just pass, but we will probably say, “good boys,” “good girls.”

Just talking. Not, like this, but like the bubble talking. Something like that. Just, “Very good.” But if you know, we have a dog that will play. You have to be ready and say something. “Hey, come on.” “Ah good!”

 

Blanka 

Do you like, because when you're, like, approaching someone, do you then go say, like, in Norwegian it's “forbi,” but like, yeah, “go past” if you translate that, or you don’t use?

 

Lena 

I like to tell people. Not in a mass start, of course. Then you have to have your eyes in the back too. But, in a normal race or training, I always say, “Hello. Is it okay if we pass you?” And I think that's a good thing for the one in front of you too. Maybe they have to do some action. Or else you can just scare them. So it's more like to tell the people, not the dog.

 

Blanka 

Another question that might come up sometimes. Is there a specific side you have to pass on like left or right?

 

Lena 

No, we don't do that. We pass where it's possible to pass. So no.

But running on left or right side, that's a thing. If you go with the bigger team you always have to have dogs running on the right side. Not in, not in Australia, in the UK but in other countries because you want to go where the cars are going. But I prefer to let the dogs run where they want to run and take shortcuts where it's possible. They find the, like, the fastest trail on the track. But I know that my husband always had bigger teams. And his dogs, even if the trail was really bad on the right side, they always run on the right side.

Yeah, but smaller teams no problem. And passings just we pass where the where it's space enough to pass.

 

Blanka 

It's a special thing in Norway, I think, because it's a lot of, like, gravel roads and dirt roads where you can also meet cars. So you have to follow the rules of traffic. So then it's very important to. Like both the visibility aspect, like be visible when it's dark and also like, don't meet someone in the turn, like head on.

 

If you would be only able to give one tip to our listeners, what would it be regarding like passing training?

 

Lena 

To train for what you are meeting in competitions. And if you're only out there for training, some people are doing that too. Just be, yeah, nice for the dogs and try to, maybe do some canicross in the beginning. They have to learn what to do before they do it. That must be the tip for everything, actually. And as always, be friends with your dogs.

And like this connection helps to, like, make them understand what you want. Then, like, also do it for you. If you want them to respect you, you have to respect them too, of course. It's very important.

 

Blanka 

Thank you so much. I think we got some amazing tips that I hope that will help our listeners to train passing with their dogs. And I wish you, yeah, the best of luck for the rest of the season. You will be following Andre around and I hope people can also meet you at the CaniX Open. Is that right?

 

Lena 

Yeah, we will go there.

 

Blanka 

Yeah. Very nice. Then, people can also ask you in person.

 

Lena 

Of course.

 

Blanka 

Yeah. Amazing. Thank you so much for joining us.

 

Lena 

Thank you, too.